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Math Help - Time to take away students' calculators - The Argus

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    Post Time to take away students' calculators - The Argus

    Time to take away students' calculators
    The Argus, CA - Sep 16, 2006
    That's the message from the National Council of Teachers of Mathematics, which issued a much-anticipated study Tuesday that urged a return to the basics in ...
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    Forum Admin topsquark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Google 'Math' News View Post
    Time to take away students' calculators
    The Argus, CA - Sep 16, 2006
    That's the message from the National Council of Teachers of Mathematics, which issued a much-anticipated study Tuesday that urged a return to the basics in ...
    It's "time to take away students' calculators." Gee Captain Obvious, what are you going to tell us next?

    -Dan
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    NOOOOOOOO, we need calculators (esp to play games)
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    is up to his old tricks again! Jhevon's Avatar
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    the article is no longer available, so i can't read what it says, but in general i agree. students are being spoiled by their calculators. at my school, a lot of courses ban calculators, including college algebra, precalculus, calculus 1,2,and 3. and i think that's good.
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    ASIF
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    Quote Originally Posted by Burnt Flower View Post
    ASIF
    And what should we assume ASIF stands for:

    ASIF: Airlift Services Industrial Fund
    ASIF: Airlift Support Industrial Fund (US DoD)
    ASIF: American Society for Internal Fixation
    ASIF: Ankylosing Spondylitis International Federation
    ASIF: Aviation Security Infrastructure Fee
    ASIF: Aviation Systems Integration Facility (US Army)

    RonL
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    Quote Originally Posted by Burnt Flower View Post
    NOOOOOOOO, we need calculators (esp to play games)
    Not in class or exams

    RonL
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainBlack View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Burnt Flower View Post
    ASIF
    And what should we assume ASIF stands for:

    ASIF: Airlift Services Industrial Fund
    ASIF: Airlift Support Industrial Fund (US DoD)
    ASIF: American Society for Internal Fixation
    ASIF: Ankylosing Spondylitis International Federation
    ASIF: Aviation Security Infrastructure Fee
    ASIF: Aviation Systems Integration Facility (US Army)

    RonL

    Maybe...As if?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Google 'Math' News View Post
    Time to take away students' calculators
    The Argus, CA - Sep 16, 2006
    That's the message from the National Council of Teachers of Mathematics, which issued a much-anticipated study Tuesday that urged a return to the basics in ...

    It's important that students understand how to perform calculations without a calculator but to insist they are never used is just plain daft.
    They are a vital tool.
    When you are trying to test someone's ability to perform complex root analysis of polynomial equations, is it really vital that the final numerical value is done by hand?

    This is as daft as the person who stated that spelling errors in Physics tests should result in lost marks.
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    Forum Admin topsquark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oaksoft View Post
    This is as daft as the person who stated that spelling errors in Physics tests should result in lost marks.
    That would be me. I don't think it is daft, I think it is vital. And as communication in the Sciences is as important as, well, the science I even take marks off for bad grammar. (That is to say if I can tell its bad grammar I take points away. )

    -Dan
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    Quote Originally Posted by topsquark View Post
    That would be me. I don't think it is daft, I think it is vital. And as communication in the Sciences is as important as, well, the science I even take marks off for bad grammar. (That is to say if I can tell its bad grammar I take points away. )

    -Dan
    Actually I wasn't referring to someone on this forum but now you mention it I remember crossing swords over this before. Thanks for admitting it.

    Tell you what, if and when I have major heart surgery, I'll be more than happy if the surgeon can't decide whether to spell it as "their" or "there" as long as he knows how to operate and I suspect you'd be the same.
    To equate spelling with technical understanding really beggars belief and I seriously expect you are on a wind up here.
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    Quote Originally Posted by oaksoft View Post
    Actually I wasn't referring to someone on this forum but now you mention it I remember crossing swords over this before. Thanks for admitting it.

    Tell you what, if and when I have major heart surgery, I'll be more than happy if the surgeon can't decide whether to spell it as "their" or "there" as long as he knows how to operate and I suspect you'd be the same.
    To equate spelling with technical understanding really beggars belief and I seriously expect you are on a wind up here.
    It is a function of the scientist, engineer and mathematician to communicate
    their ideas clearly without ambiguity. If you cannot you have no place in
    these areas of endeavour.

    When I interview job candidates one of the major selection criteria after
    technical competence is ability to communicate clearly (in fact the former
    cannot be demonstrated without the latter).

    Of course the standards applied are not those applied to a journalist or
    novelist, but they do exist. Also they can be realised (at least to my satisfaction)
    by anyone if they make an effort (I am dyslexic myself and can manage clarity
    of communication - at least to my satisfaction).

    RonL
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainBlack View Post
    It is a function of the scientist, engineer and mathematician to communicate
    their ideas clearly without ambiguity. If you cannot you have no place in
    these areas of endeavour.

    When I interview job candidates one of the major selection criteria after
    technical competence is ability to communicate clearly (in fact the former
    cannot be demonstrated without the latter).

    Of course the standards applied are not those applied to a journalist or
    novelist, but they do exist. Also they can be realised (at least to my satisfaction)
    by anyone if they make an effort (I am dyslexic myself and can manage clarity
    of communication - at least to my satisfaction).

    RonL
    I wouldn't necessarily disagree with that but I'd hesitate to say that poor communications skills meant you had no place in these areas.

    In fact I know this is wrong because I am an engineer myself and have worked with many good people who could neither spell or explain ideas properly. It's very frustrating sometimes but it's obviously not as vital as technical ability as you say.

    It's interesting you mention engineering. Engineering (particularly IT) is full of unnecessary jargon which by definition excludes people from understanding it. Used to drive me up the wall.
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    Forum Admin topsquark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oaksoft View Post
    It's interesting you mention engineering. Engineering (particularly IT) is full of unnecessary jargon which by definition excludes people from understanding it. Used to drive me up the wall.
    It depends on who your "audience" is. For example, I could likely bury just about anyone here by talking about Quantum Field Theory in terms of the Physics. And my fiancee speaks "doctor." I recently heard a conversation between her and her doctor where the words were perfectly clear, but I had no understanding of what they were saying.

    No, a surgeon doesn't need to know spelling or correct grammar to succesfully operate on a patient. But I'll bet he/she had to know it in order to learn the procedure in the first place. I understand that you feel grading language skills in, say, the Physical Sciences is unfair. Frankly a lot of students do. I also know that I'm not likely to convince you otherwise, so I'm not going to try any more. All the relevant points have already been made. Just tuck this conversation in your memory somewhere. You may change your mind about it when you get further on in your career.

    -Dan
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    Quote Originally Posted by topsquark View Post
    It depends on who your "audience" is. For example, I could likely bury just about anyone here by talking about Quantum Field Theory in terms of the Physics.
    Bury or bore?

    Quote Originally Posted by topsquark View Post
    Just tuck this conversation in your memory somewhere. You may change your mind about it when you get further on in your career.

    -Dan
    Cheeky sod. I'm older than you are young man.
    By the way, I don't have a "career"; I run my own business.
    (Hope you appreciate the correct use of a semi-colon there :-)).
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