# Where do the Numbers we count with come from?

• Sep 17th 2013, 07:55 AM
ashesmi
Where do the Numbers we count with come from?
How do mathamaticians experience what we call numbers? Do they describe all the numbers we use, as a part of infinity, or do all numbers mathamaticians use come from 1?
• Sep 17th 2013, 09:29 AM
Shakarri
Re: Where do the Numbers we count with come from?
I think that 1 is the most fundamental number, more fundamental than 0, and as such I think that all the numbers we know come from 1
Here's a good video about theories of what numbers are
o numbers EXIST? - Numberphile - YouTube
• Sep 17th 2013, 10:03 AM
HallsofIvy
Re: Where do the Numbers we count with come from?
I don't know what you mean by "part of infinity" but most "developments" of the numbers start with some version of "Peano's axioms" describing the "whole numbers":
"The whole numbers consist of a set of objects, N, (called numbers) and a "successor function, s, such that
1) There exist a member of N (called "0") such that s maps N "one-to-one" and "onto" N-{0} (the set N without 0).
2) If X is a subset of N such that (a) 0 is in X and (b) if n is in X then s(n) is in X, then X= N.

Those are, effectively, the "counting numbers" and (2) above is essentially "counting".

The other number sets, the integers, the rational numbers, the real numbers, and the complex numbers, are defined from those.
• Sep 17th 2013, 10:34 AM
ashesmi
Re: Where do the Numbers we count with come from?
Quote:

Originally Posted by Shakarri
I think that 1 is the most fundamental number, more fundamental than 0, and as such I think that all the numbers we know come from 1
Here's a good video about theories of what numbers are
o numbers EXIST? - Numberphile - YouTube

That was Absolutly The MOST AMAZING MATH VIDEO I HAVE EVER SEEN. IN...MY...LIFE!!! THANK YOU!!!
I agree I "Experience" numbers as sound, vibration, I am a musician and numbers to me are like music, like notes as matter and energy, potentual and kenetic, In harmonics there is the Fundemental Frequency, and I also feel 1 is the Fundemental Frequency. I am trying to help develope a New Math called Fractal Binary. It is built from the simple laws of physics (wave/frequency). In this video below is a new math from this new physics. It's the Physics that is used to describe the math...and it is simple, here is a short kids music video I am working on, the Video cuts out half way through because it isn't finished yet (sorry)... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CCYwbzd_Z2k

Also Here is a Method of doing Logs by using (wave/frequency) from physics

http://ashesmi.yolasite.com/resource...0s860x2243.png

Here is the 1 Plus Times Table, where the matrix begins in the center from 1+1+1+1 and spirials outward to infinity.

http://ashesmi.yolasite.com/resource...C0s860x823.png

And here is the Site I am working from trying to develope this new math.
http://ashesmi.yolasite.com/fractal-binary.php

...what do you think?

Thanks for the Video I added it to my site! Blew Me Away, God Bless You :)
• Sep 17th 2013, 10:49 AM
ashesmi
Re: Where do the Numbers we count with come from?
Thanks Hallsoflvy for your reply Shakarri Helped answer it for me. Please watch the Video Shakarri shared, it is the Phlosophy deffintions of Math I have been searching for for years. How do you view your self in the video Hallsoflvy? I am still trying to define my place in it...but I think numbers can have both a Potentual, Past and Present. When they Exist they are the Present "Kinetic", When they can exist is when they are "Potentual", Imaginary. and the past? I do not have any idea about...still pondering the video and my place in it.
• Sep 17th 2013, 02:04 PM
Hartlw
Re: Where do the Numbers we count with come from?
They come from successive slashes, found in ancient sites, and form the basis for the Peano Axioms which formally describe them.
1,11,111,1111, ...etc.
• Mar 21st 2014, 04:17 PM
bkbowser
Re: Where do the Numbers we count with come from?
Steven Pinker once described, one construction of, the most primitive form of number as "Two bears enter a cave, one bear leaves. Is it safe to enter the cave?" If I remember right he then went on to site languages developed independently by deaf communities which included only numerical concepts related to one or two or three objects, and greater then, less then, relationships.
• Mar 21st 2014, 04:43 PM
Plato
Re: Where do the Numbers we count with come from?
Quote:

Originally Posted by bkbowser
Steven Pinker once described, one construction of, the most primitive form of number as "Two bears enter a cave, one bear leaves. Is it safe to enter the cave?" If I remember right he then went on to site languages developed independently by deaf communities which included only numerical concepts related to one or two or three objects, and greater then, less then, relationships.

Steve Pinker's work in the physiology of language acquisition as well as his contribution to the mind/body problem. the blank slate are great. However, those who work on the philosophy of mathematics have reservations about his venture into the nature of mathematics. I suggest anyone interested in this read THE NUMBER SENSE: How the Mind Creates Mathematics by Stanislas Dehaene. This is written by a brain scientists who divides his time between the U of Origin and Paris.
• Mar 22nd 2014, 01:11 PM
ashesmi
Re: Where do the Numbers we count with come from?
Very COOL Plato!
• Nov 3rd 2014, 01:15 AM
xenaco88
Re: Where do the Numbers we count with come from?
That was a truly useful info. I never asked myself what the origin of the numbers we use is, but at the moment I see that this question and especially the materials you've kiondly provided can give some decent food for thought. Thanks