# Math Help - "Denseness" and addition of irrationals

1. ## "Denseness" and addition of irrationals

I'm not sure on the following parts, I insert what I'm not sure on in () brackets.

(a) Let $a$ and $b$ be ratonal numbers satisfying $a < b$. To which of the following three sets does the number $\frac{2a +3b}{5}$ belong:

$A = \{x \in \mathbb{Q} : x B = \{x \in \mathbb{Q} : a C = \{x \in \mathbb{Q} : b

(It seems fairly obvious that it's in set B but I'm not sure exactly why...)

(b) Let $X$ be a set and let $\leq$ be a total order on $X$. We say that $X$ is dense if for any two $x,y \in X$ with $x < y$ there exists $z \in X$ such that $x

Consider the set

$A = \{\frac{a}{5^n} : a,n \in \mathbb{Z}, n \geq 0\}$

Is A dense?

(it looks as though it is dense because for every two elements you can incerease n so that you find an element between them but I wasn't 100% sure on this.)

(c) Prove that $r=1$ is the only positive rational number such that $r + \frac{1}{r}$ is an integer.

(I'm not sure what to do here, I tried to suppose that $r + \frac{1}{r}$ is an integer and that $r = \frac{a}{b}$ and then $\frac{a^2 +b^2}{ab}$ is an integer but that this only happens when $a=b=1$, is any of that right?)

(d) How many positive real numbers x are there such that $x + \frac{1}{x}$ is an integer? Answer should be one of: 0,1,2,3,..., countable infinite, uncountably infinite.

(x=1 is the only rational from the previous part so its certainly not 0. But are there irrationals x such that $x + \frac{1}{x}$ is an integer? I don't know...)

Thanks for any help!

2. Originally Posted by Jason Bourne
I'm not sure on the following parts, I insert what I'm not sure on in () brackets.

(a) Let $a$ and $b$ be ratonal numbers satisfying $a < b$. To which of the following three sets does the number $\frac{2a +3b}{5}$ belong:

$A = \{x \in \mathbb{Q} : x B = \{x \in \mathbb{Q} : a C = \{x \in \mathbb{Q} : b

(It seems fairly obvious that it's in set B but I'm not sure exactly why...)
As $a we have:

$\frac{2a +3b}{5}<\frac{2b +3b}{5}=b$

and:

$\frac{2a +3b}{5}>\frac{2a +3a}{5}=a$

hence $\frac{2a +3b}{5} \in B$

(and anything in $B$ cannot be in $A$ or $C$)

.

3. Originally Posted by Jason Bourne
(b) Consider the set
$A = \{\frac{a}{5^n} : a,n \in \mathbb{Z}, n \geq 0\}$
Is A dense?
Here is an outline of the trick in this proof.
First a lemma without proof: $1 < y - x\, \Rightarrow \,\left( {\exists n \in \mathbb{Z}} \right)\left[ {x < n < y} \right]$.

Suppose that $\left\{ {\frac{a}{{5^J }},\frac{b}{{5^K }}} \right\} \subset A\;\& \;\frac{a}{{5^J }} < \frac{b}{{5^K }}$.
So $\left( {\exists N \in \mathbb{Z^+}} \right)\left[ {\frac{b}{{5^K }} - \frac{a}
{{5^J }} > \frac{1}{{5^N }}} \right]$
.
But this means that $\frac{{5^N b}}{{5^K }} - \frac{{5^N a}}{{5^J }} > 1$ which by the lemma gives $\left( {\exists M \in \mathbb{Z}^ + } \right)\left[ {\frac{{5^N a}}
{{5^J }} < M < \frac{{5^N b}}{{5^K }}} \right]\; \Rightarrow \;\left[ {\frac{a}
{{5^J }} < \frac{M}{{5^N }} < \frac{b}{{5^K }}} \right]$
.

4. for (d) do you think that there is an irrational x such that $x + \frac{1}{x}$ is equal to an integer?

5. Originally Posted by Jason Bourne
for (d) do you think that there is an irrational x such that $x + \frac{1}{x}$ is equal to an integer?
Suppose for some integer $n$ that:

$x+\frac{1}{x}=n$

then:

$x^2-nx+1=0$

and $x$ is rational if and only if the discriminant of this quadraic is a perfect square, that is for some $k \in \mathbb{N}$ :

$n^2-4=k^2$

As the gap between consecutive squares is greater than $4$ when the lesser is the square of any number of absolute value greater than or equal $2$, and the other cases are easily checked manualy the only solutions to this are $k=0,\ n=\pm 1$

Now for irrational $x$ 's. Any $n \in \mathbb{Z}$ such that:

$n^2-4>0$

but not a perfect square then $x=\frac{n+\sqrt{n^2-4}}{2}$ is an irrational such that $x+1/x$ is an integer.

In particular let $n=5$, then $x=\frac{5 + \sqrt{21}}{2}$ is irrational and a solution of:

$x+\frac{1}{x}=5$

.

6. Originally Posted by Constatine11
There are a countable infinitude of such triangles, and so there is a countable infinity of rational $x$ 's such that $x+1/x$ is an integer.
But in part (c) I prove that:

(c) Prove that $r=1$ is the only positive rational number such that $r + \frac{1}{r}$ is an integer.

so x = 1 is the only rational such that $x +\frac{1}{x}$ is an integer. So there can't be an infinite number, there is just x=1.

otherwise I guess there are countable infinite irrationals.

7. Originally Posted by Jason Bourne
But in part (c) I prove that:

(c) Prove that $r=1$ is the only positive rational number such that $r + \frac{1}{r}$ is an integer.

so x = 1 is the only rational such that $x +\frac{1}{x}$ is an integer. So there can't be an infinite number, there is just x=1.

otherwise I guess there are countable infinite irrationals.
There is a mistake in that post that I will have to sort out.

Should be fixed now.

.