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Math Help - Venn diagram question

  1. #1
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    Venn diagram question

    I have the following to diagram:

    1. What you see is what you get.
    2. You get a Jaguar.
    - - - - - - -
    Therefore, you see a Jaguar.

    ____________________________

    What I don't quite understand is the first point. Do I make a big circle for "What you see" and put a smaller circle in it, labeled "What you get"? If so, then x = Jaguar, and an x goes in "What you get," and that makes the statements valid. But ... am I thinking backwards, so that "What you get" should be the big circle, with "What you see" inside it, and so forth?

    I can't decide.
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  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Berries View Post
    I have the following to diagram
    Do you really?
    Guess what, none of us can see what you see.
    What are you asking?
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  3. #3
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    I suppose I don't feel particularly welcome, nor helped. This forum is called "Math Help," right? Not "Math Insults."

    This is a question about "Venn diagramming." The title of the thread said so. I can't draw a diagram in a forum, so I described the problem as well as I could.

    If you don't know anything about these diagrams, how about just refraining from posting?

    Thanks anyway.
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  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Berries View Post
    I suppose I don't feel particular welcome, nor helped.

    It is called "Venn diagramming." I can't draw a diagram in a forum, so I described it as well as I could.

    If you don't know anything about these diagrams, how about just refraining from posting?

    Thanks anyway.
    Dont take the comments so personally, Plato clearly wants to help you he just wants you to make it easier for him to help you by posting your question clearly. So how about you refrain form being rude.

    you can draw a diagram using your computer or scan an image and post it on the forum.
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  5. #5
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    I could do that, but I believe this will be my final post in this forum. I do participate in forums regularly, and I must say that the responses "Do you really" and "Guess what, we can't see you" were sarcastic. Hardly a way to treat a newcomer seeking help.
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  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Berries View Post
    It is called "Venn diagramming." I can't draw a diagram in a forum, so I described it as well as I could. If you don't know anything about these diagrams, how about just refraining from posting?
    Who in the world do you think you are?
    Last edited by Plato; February 16th 2008 at 03:55 AM.
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  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Berries View Post
    I could do that, but I believe this will be my final post in this forum. I do participate in forums regularly, and I must say that the responses "Do you really" and "Guess what, we can't see you" were sarcastic. Hardly a way to treat a newcomer seeking help.
    "Do you really" and "Guess what, we can't see you" were sarcastic. Hardly a way to treat a newcomer seeking help.
    Mathematics is not for cowards.
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  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Berries View Post
    1. What you see is what you get.
    2. You get a Jaguar.
    first question: do you always get what you see?
    second question: do you always see what you get?

    if you always get what you see and always see what you get
    {what you see} = {what you get}

    if you always get what you see but don't always see what you get
    {what you see} < {what you get}

    if you always see what you get but don't always get what you see
    {what you see} > {what you get}

    i don't think there's quite enough information here to define a relationship between seeing and getting.


    and as to the rabble rabble,

    if you know the answer, you know how to ask the question properly.
    if you don't know the answer, asking questions is an art form.
    understanding the questions of others when they don't understand their own question - this is godly.

    math has all the answers
    but we don't have all the math
    therefore we don't have all the answers
    *edit*
    i don't get donations.
    i don't have a title, unless it be fool.
    i like math. i want people to like math.
    *edit*
    rudeness is much like a non-deterministic Turing machine. it takes magic (or maybe just a hacker) to stop such a thing.
    Last edited by pinion; February 15th 2008 at 05:08 PM.
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  9. #9
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    Thank you, pinion, for your response. I really appreciate it and will reread it a few times to make sure I understand it fully.

    And regarding the "rabble rabble," as you put it, I don't know what manner of people generally come here seeking help. Personally, I am a nonmathematician with a history of math anxiety. I understand that my negative school experiences with math are not uncommon--the gist of it is that I was made to feel inferior because I was only average at it. So, yeah, I am sensitive about math. It's not easy to face my own limitations in solving these problems; it's not easy to post here asking for help.

    So once again, many thanks, pinion.
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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Plato View Post
    "Do you really" and "Guess what, we can't see you" were sarcastic. Hardly a way to treat a newcomer seeking help.”
    Mathematics is not for cowards.
    Plato, I am sorry to say that mathematics is for everyone who is required to take a math course, regardless of whether they are feeling courageous about math. And if someone isn't feeling courageous, why belittle them? This kind of transaction, where I am put down for asking a question (however clumsily I might ask it), has much to do with why as a youngster I went from someone who thought math was pretty cool to someone who despised math.

    And as for the insult regarding my language skills, there were typos in my post because I was upset. Read your own posts again and you might catch some typos there, too. Do I assume from your typos that you are cretinous? No. I assume this is the Web and that people write quickly and casually. Would I put you or anyone else down for typos? No.
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  11. #11
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    Hi there. I reread this thread and noticed that the worst insults directed toward me were edited out by their author. I suppose it does make for a kinder, gentler thread this way.

    I'm still pondering "What you see is what you get." I keep returning to the common meaning of that statement. For example, when my husband and I purchased a small, simple (but older) house, a contractor friend of ours looked it over carefully and said, "It's a WYSIWYG house"--and he explained that what he meant was that all of the house's problems were right there to be seen, and there weren't any hidden problems. In other words, we saw what we were getting, and we got exactly what we saw. Doesn't that mean that
    {what you get} = {what you see}

    ??

    Or am I just being too language-oriented? Because the whole "You get a Jaguar" idea doesn't really mesh with the common meaning, does it?

    I'm going to see a math tutor this afternoon and will run this past her, of course. The question is for an assignment to be graded and is unlike any of the textbook examples or homework problems. But I don't want to just get the answer right. I want to understand the thinking of whoever wrote the question. Do you think the person who wrote it was trying to be tricky?

    Also, if I diagram the statements but include a long-winded explanation of all that I was considering in arriving at that diagram, well ... if you were my course instructor, would you be annoyed?
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