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Math Help - Area betwixt two graphs

  1. #1
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    Area betwixt two graphs

    Consider the area between the graphs and . This area can be computed in two different ways using integrals First of all it can be computed as a sum of two integrals
    where , , and



    ***

    First off, to find a, b and c I believe we have to find the intercepts, and to do that we need to make the equations equal to each other and solve for x. But I'm having problems because of the y values when trying to isolate them.

    x + 3y = 36
    y = - \frac {x}{3}+12

    x+4=y^2
    y = \sqrt{x+4}
    I'm stuck there. The square root poses a problem for me.

    - \frac{x}{3} + 12 = \sqrt{x+4}

    How can I isolate and solve for x?
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  2. #2
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    Square:

    \big(\sqrt{x+4}\big)^2=\big(12-\frac{x}{3}\big)^2
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    Quote Originally Posted by dwsmith View Post
    Square:

    \big(\sqrt{x+4}\big)^2=\big(12-\frac{x}{3}\big)^2
    <br />
x+4 = - \frac {x^2}{9} + 144
    \frac {x^2}{9} + x - 140 = 0

    Do I use the quadratic formula to solve for x? I have a feeling this is wrong because it only gives me 2 values for x and I'm looking for 3.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Archduke01 View Post
    <br />
x+4 = - \frac {x^2}{9} + 144 Mr F says: The right hand side here is totally wrong.

    Most problems in calculus can be traced back to poor skills in basic algebra. You are advised to take much greater care with your work and to thoroughly review all the pre-calculus material you're expected to know at the calculus level.

    \frac {x^2}{9} + x - 140 = 0

    Do I use the quadratic formula to solve for x? I have a feeling this is wrong because it only gives me 2 values for x and I'm looking for 3.
    A simple sketch of the two graphs (with the required area shaded - something you should have done as the very first step) shows that two solutions are expected. Why on Earth do you expect three?
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr fantastic View Post
    A simple sketch of the two graphs (with the required area shaded - something you should have done as the very first step) shows that two solutions are expected. Why on Earth do you expect three?
    Because there are 3 unknown values; a, b, and c...
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    as Mr. F stated, a sketch of the graph will reveal what is required ...

    you may be better served by integrating w/r to y to find this area.

    A = \int_c^d f(y) - g(y) \, dy
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    Quote Originally Posted by Archduke01 View Post
    Because there are 3 unknown values; a, b, and c...

    Finding the 2 solutions gives me answers for 2 values ... so how do I find the third one?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Archduke01 View Post
    Finding the 2 solutions gives me answers for 2 values ... so how do I find the third one?
    By third one, do you mean the vertex of of the parabola?
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    Quote Originally Posted by dwsmith View Post
    By third one, do you mean the vertex of of the parabola?
    Ah, so that's what it is! Thank you. Up until now, I've never had to find the vertex to calculate the area ... is it because one of the graphs are not a function?
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    By your integral setups, you are integrating over x; therefore, you need the x coordinates. Since you need xs, you need to know the the vertex.

    Or you could integrate over like skeeter suggested over y. Then you will only need the y coordinates.

    Did you ever get the foiling process right?

    Your first answer was off as Mr. Fantastic pointed out?
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    Quote Originally Posted by dwsmith View Post
    By your integral setups, you are integrating over x; therefore, you need the x coordinates. Since you need xs, you need to know the the vertex.

    Or you could integrate over like skeeter suggested over y. Then you will only need the y coordinates.

    Did you ever get the foiling process right?

    Your first answer was off as Mr. Fantastic pointed out?
    Oh indeed I corrected that, I got 60 and 21 as 2 of my values, which are correct.

    To find the vertex it's -b/2a. Our function is y^2 = (x+4) ... How would I proceed to find the vertex? Is there a different formula?

    And yes I know I could integrate w/r to y, but the first part of the question asks me to do it the way portrayed in the topic title, and the 2nd part asks me to find the area using integration w/r to y.
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    Since this parabola is situated on the x axis, you can set y=0 and obtain the vertex.
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    y^2 = (x+4)

    -b/2a = -4/2 = -2

    Which is wrong... the answer is supposed to be -4, but how? This is a straightforward procedure.

    EDIT; I see what you mean now, with setting y = 0, but why is it that the formula failed? Shouldn't they both have worked?
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    This is a horizontal parabola. You need to solve this equation.

    x=y^2-4

    Just pretend x is y and solve that.

    Hint: there is no b.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Archduke01 View Post
    Consider the area between the graphs and . This area can be computed in two different ways using integrals First of all it can be computed as a sum of two integrals
    where , , and



    ***

    First off, to find a, b and c I believe we have to find the intercepts, and to do that we need to make the equations equal to each other and solve for x. But I'm having problems because of the y values when trying to isolate them.

    x + 3y = 36
    y = - \frac {x}{3}+12

    x+4=y^2
    y = \sqrt{x+4}
    I'm stuck there. The square root poses a problem for me.

    - \frac{x}{3} + 12 = \sqrt{x+4}

    How can I isolate and solve for x?
    I'm not sure that what you have above is correct. In fact the area between 2 functions is the larger function - the smaller function over some bound (either x or y)

    So I would write

    A=\int_{b}^a g(y) - h(y)dy

    Let us re-arrange your equations such that

     x= 36 - 3y

    x= y^2 - 4

    Find the intersection of these points, i.e. when y satisfies

    y^2 +3y -40 = 0

    I hope I expanded that right of Mr. Fantastic is going to jump on me!

    Then simply integrate from the bounds that you find.

    A little tip, if you notice the above is a nice quadratic function! We can then find the roots by factoring.

    y^2 +3y -40 = 0 = (y-5)(y+8)
    Last edited by AllanCuz; April 11th 2010 at 10:17 AM.
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