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Math Help - Standard error?

  1. #1
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    Standard error?

    How can I calculate this please? If I am dividing two numbers?

    Say divide

    333.77.8 by 1.080.09 ?

    if I simply divide 7.8 by 0.089 then that is 86.66 which is surely too big?

    thanks
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  2. #2
    Forum Admin topsquark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by graham_keith View Post
    How can I calculate this please? If I am dividing two numbers?

    Say divide

    333.77.8 by 1.080.09 ?

    if I simply divide 7.8 by 0.089 then that is 86.66 which is surely too big?

    thanks
    There are probably several ways to get an estimate. This is the one I learned.

    These are standard errors, defining x \pm \Delta x = 333.7 \pm 7.8, y \pm \Delta y = 1.08 \pm 0.09 and z = \frac{x}{y} we find that
    z = \frac{x}{y} = \frac{333.7}{1.08} = 308.981

    and
    \Delta z = \sqrt{\left ( \frac{\partial z}{\partial x} \cdot \Delta x \right ) ^2 + \left ( \frac{\partial z}{\partial y} \cdot \Delta y \right ) ^2}

    \Delta z = \sqrt{\left ( \frac{1}{y} \cdot \Delta x \right ) ^2 + \left ( -\frac{x}{y^2} \cdot \Delta y \right ) ^2}

    \Delta z = \sqrt{\left ( \frac{\Delta x}{y} \right ) ^2 + \left ( \frac{x \Delta}{y^2} \right ) ^2}

    \Delta z = \sqrt{\left ( \frac{7.8}{1.08 } \right ) ^2 + \left ( \frac{333.7 \cdot 0.09}{1.08 ^2} \right ) ^2}

    \Delta z = 8.8266

    So z = 308.981 \pm 8.8266 = 309.0 \pm 8.8

    -Dan
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  3. #3
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    hmm

    well, thanks for the reply. you could be right there, but that would mean the source of this problem is wrong. Here are their values for instance.

    1.080.09 / 333.77.8 = 30927

    0.130.01 / 4.10.1 = 323

    0.300.01 / 101.80.8 = 33912


    ??????????????????????

    thanks again for your efforts. Any further comments would be appreciated.
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  4. #4
    Forum Admin topsquark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by graham_keith View Post
    well, thanks for the reply. you could be right there, but that would mean the source of this problem is wrong. Here are their values for instance.

    1.080.09 / 333.77.8 = 30927

    0.130.01 / 4.10.1 = 323

    0.300.01 / 101.80.8 = 33912


    ??????????????????????

    thanks again for your efforts. Any further comments would be appreciated.
    Actually, no we are probably both right, without any further information anyway. There are several methods for finding the standard error and which one you use tends to depend on the type of experiment, though they all give close to the same result anyway.

    The method I showed you was introduced to me as "Propagation of Errors" though if you look it up you might find that as something else. (I never was sure if they got the name of the process right.)

    Without having your source handy I can't make any further intelligent guess as to how they want you to calculate it.

    -Dan
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  5. #5
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    citation

    it is table 2 in this paper I am going from. Enzyme kinetics

    Characterization of phenylpyruvate decarboxylase, ...[J Bacteriol. 2007] - PubMed Result
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  6. #6
    Forum Admin topsquark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by graham_keith View Post
    it is table 2 in this paper I am going from. Enzyme kinetics

    Characterization of phenylpyruvate decarboxylase, ...[J Bacteriol. 2007] - PubMed Result
    Waaaaay beyond my ken. Can't help any further. Sorry!

    -Dan
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  7. #7
    Senior Member tukeywilliams's Avatar
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    I like the book by Taylor on Error analysis. He explains prorogation of errors well.
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