Let W be the subspace of P3(all third degree polynomials) such that p(0)=0, and let U be the subspace of all polynomials such that p(1)=0. Find a basis for W, a basis for U, and a basis for their intersection W and U.

Printable View

- Jul 5th 2011, 10:11 AMJavVector Spaces
Let W be the subspace of P3(all third degree polynomials) such that p(0)=0, and let U be the subspace of all polynomials such that p(1)=0. Find a basis for W, a basis for U, and a basis for their intersection W and U.

- Jul 5th 2011, 11:00 AMFernandoRevillaRe: Vector Spaces
I suppose you mean by the vector space of all polynomials of degree . Choose a generic polynomial then, and . Could you continue?

- Jul 5th 2011, 04:33 PMDevenoRe: Vector Spaces
hint #2. suppose a+b+c+d = 0. if we choose a,b and c, does that tell us what d has to be? what does that tell you about dim(U)?

for the intersection, we have to have a+b+c = 0 and d = 0 (why?). - Jul 5th 2011, 05:02 PMJavRe: Vector Spaces
To Fernando:

I'm not sure, how to continue. Should I set this arbitrary polynomial in a matrix?

If "d" is always zero for W, then the basis has to include only the variables x, x^2, x^3?

As for U, I have no clue, how to set a basis. There can be a large amount of combinations of a+b+c+d that yield 0. - Jul 5th 2011, 05:26 PMAlso sprach ZarathustraRe: Vector Spaces
- Jul 5th 2011, 05:50 PMJavRe: Vector Spaces
- Jul 5th 2011, 07:44 PMDevenoRe: Vector Spaces
here is my claim: dim(U) = 3. how can i prove this? i shall exhibit a basis. so i need to find 3 linearly independent polynomials p,q,r such that p(1) = q(1) = r(1) = 0.

for p, i choose p(x) = x-1. for q, i choose q(x) = (x-1)^2. for r, i choose (x-1)^3. are these linearly independent?

suppose ap + bq + cr = 0. that means: a(x-1) + b(x^2 - 2x + 1) + c(x^3 - 3x^2 + 3x - 1) is the 0-polynomial. now,

a(x-1) + b(x^2 - 2x + 1) + c(x^3 - 3x^2 + 3x - 1) = ax - a + bx^2 - 2bx + b + cx^3 - 3cx^2 + 3cx - c

= cx^3 + (b - 3c)x^2 + (a - 2bc + 3c)x - (a - b + c). if this is the 0-polynomial, we have to have c = 0. so

bx^2 + (a - 2b)x - (a - b) = 0. from this, we see that b = 0, as well. so:

ax - a = 0, which is only identically the 0-polynomial when a = 0.

how does this relate to my hint? if a+b+c+d = 0, if we choose any 3 numbers for a,b and c, then we are forced to set d = -a - b - c.

this suggests that picking 3 coefficients determines an element of U. the three basis vectors i chose correspond the the following choices for a,b,c,d:

x - 1 (a = 0, b = 0, c = 1, d = -1)

(x-1)^2 = x^2 - 2x + 1 (a = 0, b = 1, c = -2, d = 1).

(x-1)^3 = x^3 - 3x^2 + 3x - 1 (a = 1, b = -3, c = 3, d = -1).

i could have chosen p,q, and r quite differently. suppose i just worked from d = -a - b - c.

one "natural" choice might be: a = 1, b = c = 0, d = -1 ---> r(x) = x^3 - 1; a = c = 0, b = 1, d = -1 --> q(x) = x^2 - 1;

a = b = 0, c = 1, d = -1 --> p(x) = x - 1. you may verify for yourself that {x - 1, x^2 - 1, x^3 - 1} is also a basis for U.

now for W, it is clear that {x,x^2,x^3} is a linearly independent set, and that span({x, x^2, x^3}) is clearly a subspace of W.

suppose p(x) is in W. since p(0) = 0, p has a 0 constant term. hence p(x) = ax^3 + bx^2 + cx, which is in span({x, x^2, x^3}),

so {x, x^2, x^3} is a linearly independent spanning set for W. what do we call a linearly independent spanning set?

it would be nice if the bases we had exhibited so far had a nice intersection. but, oh well. to find a basis for U∩W, my advice is

to think about how you can factor polynomials for which p(0) = 0, and p(1) = 0. another approach:

dim(U) = dim(W) = 3. since neither U nor W is contained in the other, dim(U∩W) < 3, which leaves 0,1, or 2.

x^2 - x is in U∩W, so dim(U∩W) > 0. can you find another element of U∩W linearly independent from x^2 - x? - Jul 5th 2011, 11:19 PMFernandoRevillaRe: Vector Spaces
When we have the implicit equations of a subspace, it is just routine to find a basis of the subspace, you only need to solve the system . Working in coordinates with respect to we have

**Basis of**

so, are linearly independent an span . As a consequence a basis of is .

*Basis of*

so, are linearly independent an span . As a consequence a basis of is

*Basis of*

so, are linearly independent an span . As a consequence a basis of is - Jul 6th 2011, 05:41 AMJavRe: Vector Spaces
- Jul 6th 2011, 05:47 AMJavRe: Vector Spaces
I understand that U can be expressed as {(1,0,0,-1),(0,1,0,-1),(0,0,1,-1)} and this vectors are linearly independent and span the polynomial.

I've been taught to put this vectors in a matrix and solve in row echelon or reduced row-echelon to find a basis, but I don't understand your methods to get the basis of U.

Could you develop further? - Jul 6th 2011, 06:52 AMHallsofIvyRe: Vector Spaces
You have a+ b+ c+ d= 0 and can solve that for any one component- for example, d= -a- b- c. Then any vector is of the form <a, b, c, d>= <a, b, c, -a- b- c>= <a, 0, 0, -a>+ <0, b, 0, -b>+ <0, 0, c, -c>= a<1, 0, 0, -1>+ b<0, 1, 0, 1>+ c<0, 0, 1, -1>.

- Jul 6th 2011, 07:05 AMJavRe: Vector Spaces
- Jul 6th 2011, 07:56 AMDevenoRe: Vector Spaces
in P3, x^3 - 1 is the vector (1,0,0,-1) relative to the basis {x^3,x^2,x,1}: x^3 - 1 = (1)x^3 + (0)x^2 + (0)x + (-1)1.

similarly x^2 - 1 is the vector (0,1,0,-1) relative to that same basis, and x - 1 is (0,0,1,-1).

ax^3 + bx^2 + cx + d <--> (a,b,c,d). - Jul 6th 2011, 08:03 AMJavRe: Vector Spaces
Thank you Deveno and most of you. Particularly, to Fernando. You are very clear.

:) - Jul 6th 2011, 10:58 AMIsomorphismRe: Vector Spaces
The new question has been moved here. The posts here must be related to the original problem only.

Jav,

Two suggestions for a healthy stay at MHF:

1) Start a new thread for a new question.

2) Mark the thread as [SOLVED] by clicking on 'Thread Tools' in the bar above your first post in the thread