# D4 question

• Apr 18th 2010, 02:07 PM
nhk
D4 question
Prove that D4 (Dihedral group) cannot be expressed as an internal direct product of two proper subgroups.
I know that the only two possible subgroups would be the subgroups of order 4 and 2. I am thinking since D4 is not commutative I can get a contradicition this way, but I am not sure how to do it. (Crying) Any help would be welcomed(Evilgrin)
• Apr 18th 2010, 03:37 PM
Drexel28
Quote:

Originally Posted by nhk
Prove that D4 (Dihedral group) cannot be expressed as an internal direct product of two proper subgroups.
I know that the only two possible subgroups would be the subgroups of order 4 and 2. I am thinking since D4 is not commutative I can get a contradicition this way, but I am not sure how to do it. (Crying) Any help would be welcomed(Evilgrin)

I thought the dihedral group $\displaystyle D_n$ is always isomorphic to a semidirect product of $\displaystyle C_2$ and $\displaystyle C_n$
• Apr 18th 2010, 03:56 PM
nhk
what is C2 and Cn? I think we have not got that advanced in the class i am taking right now.
• Apr 18th 2010, 04:09 PM
Drexel28
Quote:

Originally Posted by nhk
what is C2 and Cn? I think we have not got that advanced in the class i am taking right now.

What are you doing in class right now?
• Apr 18th 2010, 05:00 PM
nhk
factor groups and normal subgroups are what we are doing in my class right now.
• Apr 18th 2010, 05:54 PM
Drexel28
Quote:

Originally Posted by nhk
factor groups and normal subgroups are what we are doing in my class right now.

I'm not sure. You should probably let someone better at group theory (e.g. tonio) take a look at this. I'm pretty sure that $\displaystyle D_4\cong C_4\ltimes C_2$
• Apr 18th 2010, 06:04 PM
nhk
• Apr 18th 2010, 06:05 PM
nhk
tonio can you save me again please?
• Apr 18th 2010, 06:28 PM
aliceinwonderland
Quote:

Originally Posted by nhk
tonio can you save me again please?

Well, I might be able to help u too :)

As u said, the possible proper subgroups of D4 are all abelian (groups of order 2, 4). If D4 are the internal direct product of its nontrivial proper subgroups, then D4 becomes abelian. Contradiction.

As Drexel28 said,

$\displaystyle D_4 \cong C_4 \ltimes_\phi C_2$, where $\displaystyle \phi:C_2 \rightarrow \text{Aut}(C_4)$ and the assoicated action is $\displaystyle x \cdot h = h^{-1}$ for all h in $\displaystyle C_4$ and x in $\displaystyle C_2$ such that $\displaystyle xhx^{-1} = h^{-1}$.
• Apr 18th 2010, 06:40 PM
nhk
Quote:

Originally Posted by aliceinwonderland
Well, I might be able to help u too :)

As u said, the possible proper subgroups of D4 are all abelian (groups of order 2, 4). If D4 are the internal direct product of its nontrivial proper subgroups, then D4 becomes abelian. Contradiction.

As Drexel28 said,

$\displaystyle D_4 \cong C_4 \ltimes_\phi C_2$, where $\displaystyle \phi:C_2 \rightarrow \text{Aut}(C_4)$ and the assoicated action is $\displaystyle x \cdot h = h^{-1}$ for all h in $\displaystyle C_4$ and x in $\displaystyle C_2$ such that $\displaystyle xhx^{-1} = h^{-1}$.

I am not sure why that the internal direct product of abelain subroups makes D4 abelian, could you explain this to me a little?
• Apr 18th 2010, 06:53 PM
aliceinwonderland
Quote:

Originally Posted by nhk
I am not sure why that the internal direct product of abelain subroups makes D4 abelian, could you explain this to me a little?

Direct sum - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Direct sum - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
• Apr 18th 2010, 09:56 PM
nhk
definitions always get me!! THanks for you help aliceinwonderland